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 Заголовок сообщения: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Вт сен 13, 2011 10:49 am 
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I recently attended to an audiophiles meeting where computers were used as high quality music providers (aka decoder/player).
The best sounding one was a cMP²-configured i3, one core disabled and underclocked to optimize the jitter...
The owner of the machine explained us that less workload the computer has, the better able to provide bit-perfect output.

So here's the idea: why don't "put togheter" a KOS-USB distro to easy turn "any" PC into an high quality audio player ?

cMP² website: http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Вт ноя 22, 2011 11:45 am 
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Just to revamp the idea: that friend now switched to Voyage Linux which - he claims - sound better (less weight = more quality).

Another interesting link that may inspire: http://jplay.eu/

They *sells* their player for 99€ !

In other words this means that "a market" exist...


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Вт ноя 22, 2011 11:54 am 
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Зарегистрирован: Вт авг 25, 2009 4:45 pm
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Please, stop flooding ideas! Or I'll block your account. If you have idea, feel free implement it. If you have nice idea - feel free to share. But not bunch of useless ideas!

Think, before posting, please.


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Ср ноя 23, 2011 1:36 pm 
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Very interesting approach ! :|

I'm not a developer, so I can only share ideas...
Useless ? That's YOUR opinion, not mine: I *always* think before post anything.

BTW If my post hurts you please delete my account.


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Ср ноя 23, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Зарегистрирован: Пт авг 14, 2009 1:46 am
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forart.eu писал(а):
I recently attended to an audiophiles meeting where computers were used as high quality music providers (aka decoder/player).
The best sounding one was a cMP²-configured i3, one core disabled and underclocked to optimize the jitter...

nonsense.
CPU clock jitter usually has sub-nanosecond range and can not affect human perception at all.

forart.eu писал(а):
The owner of the machine explained us that less workload the computer has, the better able to provide bit-perfect output.

That sometimes happens -- if a [cheap, poor-quality] board shares the power lines between CPU and audio channels.
It is a hardware problem -- downgrading software can only reduce the CPU [+Memory] power consumption and therefore reduce [just a little!] such power crosstalks.
He'd better try another board and/or replace his power unit -- just to compare.


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Ср ноя 23, 2011 3:31 pm 
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forart.eu: Useless not because "useless", but because no one can implement so big bunch of your ideas. If you want REALLY help -> you can choose non-coding task: e.g. documentation or bug hunting, or something another. At least you can help with one of your idea, if you can design very deep and advanced roadmap for it


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Ср ноя 23, 2011 3:39 pm 
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Зарегистрирован: Пн сен 24, 2007 11:11 am
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forart.eu, I want YOU to build English KolibriOS Wiki :D


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Ср ноя 23, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Guys, calm down, this 'nonsense' is what some so-called audiophiles (I refer to them as audiophools) believe.
There is indeed a (small?) market for this.
Nonetheles, ideas only get us nowhere, but what is the purpose of this forum section then?

_________________
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." Albert Einstein


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Ср ноя 23, 2011 7:03 pm 
hidnplayr писал(а):
Nonetheles, ideas only get us nowhere, but what is the purpose of this forum section then?

Developer has an idea and is ready to implement it, but not completely sure about the details. He needs consultation with other developers who may know more and can point out some errors in the phase of the project.


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Ср ноя 23, 2011 7:42 pm 
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I'll help if the OS does something i need, but if "it" doesn't implement any of the ideas I propose, then why should I help?

The exchange between devs and non-devs should be exactly this: I can do something "for you" and you can do something "for me" while we both do something to evolve the project.

Differently I can just post "suggestion" and "ideas", nothing other (it's quite enough, for me).


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Ср ноя 23, 2011 7:50 pm 
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XVilka писал(а):
forart.eu: Useless not because "useless", but because no one can implement so big bunch of your ideas.

Are you serious ?
No one here can create a WAV player that loads the whole audio data in RAM before playing ?

If true, well... I don't see "lights" in the future of this OS !

EDIT:
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.p ... -questions
http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=9635

art_zh писал(а):
CPU clock jitter usually has sub-nanosecond range and can not affect human perception at all.

Check out this page to understand better what I mean: http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.p ... imisations

As you can see "they" disable almost anything, so the idea is: why don't use an OS that *already* hasn't a so complex structure to disable ?

...and if it's 100% assembly should be even better !

Am I wrong ?


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Ср ноя 23, 2011 8:30 pm 
forart.eu
Some of your ideas are interesting and probably useful, but active developers in the project is very low. Unfortunately the majority of developers are already busy at 100%.
That's not counting the fact that developers work exclusively "Just for fun". However, much of what you offer is a commercial programming. In some cases it can cause a negative reaction from the developers.
For many russian-speaking people "idea generators" on the forum there is much more harsh words from the developers. For not russian-speaking people here (the forum) are much more softer words from the developers. You should not take offense at the request of the forum moderators.


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Чт ноя 24, 2011 12:30 am 
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Зарегистрирован: Пт авг 14, 2009 1:46 am
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forart.eu писал(а):
art_zh писал(а):
CPU clock jitter usually has sub-nanosecond range and can not affect human perception at all.

Check out this page to understand better what I mean: http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.p ... imisations

As you can see "they" disable almost anything, so the idea is: why don't use an OS that *already* hasn't a so complex structure to disable ?

...and if it's 100% assembly should be even better !

Am I wrong ?

I did have a look to the site you've referenced -- there was a general set of advices to improve Windows' permittivity and reduce concurrent system latencies.
All advices were obviously good -- system delays can affect media quality very much, indeed.
If it didn't help -- then one needs to check his hardware.

Despite Kolibri has its own [similar] system delays, you're right -- 100% lightweight assembly OS + careful optimisation of media driver can improve the quality of sound.

I said a mild word "nonsense" about this only statement:
Цитата:
The best sounding one was a cMP²-configured i3, one core disabled and underclocked to optimize the jitter...

He definitely needs to replace his hardware...

Has your friend read the Wiki what the term "jitter" means?


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Чт ноя 24, 2011 11:14 am 
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Mario писал(а):
However, much of what you offer is a commercial programming. In some cases it can cause a negative reaction from the developers.

...commercial programming ?

On contrary: I'm proposing this idea here exactly 'cause I don't like commercial software, I firmly prefer free&open !

I understand that asm devs are few and busy, but this idea shouldn't be so mutch difficoult to achieve and could even be the killer-application for the OS diffusion...

EDIT: the accuracy error that affects each clock edge and cycle is digital clock jitter.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/jitter1_e.html
http://www.jitter.de/english/engc_navfr.html
http://www.stereophile.com/reference/1290jitter


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 Заголовок сообщения: Re: [IDEA] Audiophile distro !!!
СообщениеДобавлено: Чт ноя 24, 2011 12:38 pm 
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forart.eu
please stop lecturing me on the subject I was studying for over 25 years!
you better start thinking by your own:

Q: what is CPU clk jitter range? >> A: ~100ps @ 1GHz
Q: what is audio sampling freq? >> A: let's say 44kHz, or ~20,000 times lower than CPU's
Q: can we improve random jitter dividing the frequensy by factor of 20,000? >> A: yes. the Gaussian averaging factor will be sqrt(20000) ~ 150
Q: what the resulting jitter we expect at 44kHz after such division? >> A: less than 1ps (!!)
Q: and what shall we think about this sentence:
one audiophile писал(а):
The best sounding one was a cMP²-configured i3, one core disabled and underclocked to optimize the jitter...
A: nonsense.

Q: but, in general, why downgrading CPU can improve audio quality at all?
A: it is 100% due to hardware problems: EMI, power spikes, line crosstalks, poor PCB layout etc.


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