yogev_ezra wrote:Aleksey Bragin (ReactOS Project Coordinator) has contacted me on Facebook via "Russian Kickstarter" group. I proposed to put up a cheap hackable x86 Pico-ITX computer on Kickstarter, and he was just thinking of the same. He wanted to collect funds for ReactOS on Kickstarter, but offering ReactOS alone does not qualify as a "project" by KickStarter definition. So a good alternative is offering a complete computer running ReactOS as a reward. I was thinking that maybe we can offer even more, by teaming up Coreboot, KolibriOS and ReactOS, and offering them installed on Vortex86-based nettop. If Kickstarter funding is successful, we will have money to actually pay developers to work on KolbiriOS, ReactOS and Coreboot. What do you think about this?
What about http://indiegogo.com/ ? They are international and much more relaxed than Kickstarter.
Please contact me, if you need some help or opinions with the marketing strategy. I've done a lot of research on crowdfunding.
Beluga wrote:What about http://indiegogo.com/ ? They are international and much more relaxed than Kickstarter.
Please contact me, if you need some help or opinions with the marketing strategy. I've done a lot of research on crowdfunding.
I have considered IndieGoGo in the past, and am still considering it. The advantage of IndieGoGo is, of course, being able to start project from almost any country. But the big disadvantage is much smaller community, less publicity and ultimately much less money donated.
Beluga wrote:What about http://indiegogo.com/ ? They are international and much more relaxed than Kickstarter.
Please contact me, if you need some help or opinions with the marketing strategy. I've done a lot of research on crowdfunding.
I have considered IndieGoGo in the past, and am still considering it. The advantage of IndieGoGo is, of course, being able to start project from almost any country. But the big disadvantage is much smaller community, less publicity and ultimately much less money donated.
Based on my observations, the problems you are describing are not tied to the platform. At the stage where the existing backer community on Kickstarter begins to make a noticeable impact on a project financially, the said project has already gained much publicity through other channels. My rule of thumb is that in practice, only the amount of publicity matters. One cannot count on Kickstarter to promote one's project in their company blog or feature it on the front page. It's a stroke of luck if that happens.
With KolibriOS, just like with any other project, we need to be able to blast news of the campaign to all relevant channels and throughout social networks. One possible angle (the way I see it) might be to picture KolibriOS as a work of art. The message could be adjusted based on which channel we are trying to reach. Some non-technical media might pick up the story as a funding campaign always brings some action into the narrative.
In order to be more appealing to the public (and offer tax deductions on donations), we should consider registering ourselves as non-profit in USA under chapter 501(c)3.
But at this point, we will be able to start a project on Kickstarter.
I'm very sorry for the offtopic but you guys are keep using "but" incorrectly. On the front page you have "Your feedback is very much appreciated, but your help is always more than welcomed." This means that 1st part is good and second is bad (or vise versa, up to reader to decide). Phrase "... But at this point,..." is incorrect either given the previous context. Phrase "This is our new website but now we need much more" I translate as "давайте, давайте - мы конечно загребём"
We got 1 step closer to Kickstarter.
On Monday I paid a USA accountant to register USA company and USA bank account. I hope it will be done in short time (he promised around 1 week).
In order to advertise the Kickstarter project, we need a banner that will be shown on main KolibriOS page and on various websites. I asked Leency to make the banner, and here's what he came up with:
profanity-001.png (37.63 KiB)
Viewed 7655 times
Feel free to comment or suggest improvements The only restrictions are that banner has to be static (no moving images) and banner size has to be 930x80px. You can see examples of banners that other projects use here: http://www.kicktraq.com/sponsors/
Looks not so bad, but a bit weird. Also, there's something strange aroun "KICK
Btw, banners on http://www.kicktraq.com/sponsors/ a bit better for eye-catching. Let's think a bit more about banner.
Logos in http://www.kicktraq.com/sponsors/ is very bright and had a lot of different elements, may be they looks attractive. But if you put them in the real site, you wouldn't see them! I like simple and clear logos, where you can read text, and text is short and simple. But it can catch you.
If someone don't like it, can make another. Это та фраза, о которую ломаются все, даже здравые доводы)
Registering USA company and USA bank account is a big step for Kolibri. I wish this day has come.
The company was incorporated yesterday (February 11th) in the State of Delaware, USA. As I said earlier in the chat, incorporating a non-profit in USA under chapter 501(c)3 is not possible without real US resident presence, so I had to go with for-profit corporation. So, technically, the company belongs to me and not to KolibriOS community.
Spoiler:yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:21 pm » hidnplayr: Via Kickstarter we can try to collect enough money to hire 1-2 or even more developers as full-time job, so the features people are missing the most will be ready much faster. Also, even if Kickstarter fails and we don't collect the goal that we set, it's a huge exposure to non-russian-speaking world, and this is what we lack a lot.
hidnplayr « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:22 pm » And where are the programmers who will work for the money?
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:25 pm » hidnplayr: Sourcerer agrees to work for money at least 2-4 hours a day, every day. Based on his previous experience, I believe he will be able to make (or port) a browser and RDP client. And you can continue to work on VNC client, and if you want to work for money too, we can then pay you.
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:26 pm » Besides you two, http://www.odesk.com and similar sites are a good place to hire people for things like this (temporary work), and I already have positive experience from this site.
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:27 pm » I am not talking about $20, if we gather the money it will be at least few thousand dollars for each task.
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:28 pm » Technically what I am going to do is to form a LLC company in USA, open USA corporate bank account and hire USA accountant so the taxes are paid properly. Then I can post the project on Kickstarter
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:29 pm » The company I form will be "for-profit" because one of us has to be USA resident to make it non-profit, and the process of approving non-profit is at least 3-4 months, which is not good for us.
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:30 pm » This will also allow my company to hire anyone I want to work on KolibriOS, without any limitation
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:31 pm » But de-facto I will manage it as non-profit, I mean any money we collect minus the taxes and Kickstarter fees, will go to work on KolibriOS. The only money I will take from this is the money I spend on company registration and accountant services.
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:35 pm » So for example, if we gather $100,000 on Kickstarter, the Kickstarter + Amazon fees are about 10%. So we get 90,000$ net. Company registration and management and accountant services will cost around $5000 a year (if we use the company/accountant for a full year). This leaves us 85,000$.
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:36 pm » Then, we need to give rewards, otherwise people will not back the project of course
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:36 pm » Let's say, we give eBox+KolbiriOS as a bundle, or just KolibriOS already installed on SD card / USB flash disk
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:37 pm » The rewards will cost us let's say 60,000$ so we are left with 25,000$ to pay the programmers for their tasks.
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:38 pm » So we can define 5 tasks, the most important ones, and allocate $5,000 to each task.
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:38 pm » This is the plan, in very high level
SoUrcerer « Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:30 pm » yogev_ezra: sounds great
hidnplayr « Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:31 pm » you plan to gain a lot of monety
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:52 pm » For Kickstarter, 100000 is not a lot of money, you just need to gain enough publicity for this.
yogev_ezra « Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:55 pm » It does not do any harm to try. I just risk 1000$ for company registration and bank account opening. If we don't collect the requested amount, people lose nothing so no need to worry.
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:47 pm » Today I paid $1000 to incorporate a company in USA and open USA bank account
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:48 pm » so what does this mean?
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:48 pm » sounds like a lot of money to me
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:49 pm » I became $1000 poorer And Kickstarter became a bit closer
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:50 pm » @Loop: If Kickstarter is successful, then I will get this money back (deduct it from profit).
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:50 pm » If not, then GOTO @LOOP
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:51 pm » (Try Kickstarter another time)
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:52 pm » Oh, I personally believe more in a 'one shot to do it right' approach
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:52 pm » It's a problem because we cannot know how KolibriOS will be received by Kickstarter community.
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:52 pm » Because I believe a second attemp may not be as sucessful.
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:53 pm » And you cannot change project goal and rewards after the project was already started
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:54 pm » seems fair
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:54 pm » For example, this man has tried 3 times for the same project: http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/digitilus
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:55 pm » 1st time: asked $200,000 and got $42,916
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:55 pm » 2nd time: asked $200,000 and got $128,238
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:56 pm » 3rd time: asked $30,000 only (but offered only 1/4 of functionality of 1st/2nd time) and got $36,131
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:56 pm » Conclusion: no logic in Kickstarter
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:58 pm » Resolution: try Kickstarter as many times as you want for the same project. Result is unpredictable.
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:58 pm » seems like he got his 200,000 after all
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:59 pm » No. he got only $36,131
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:59 pm » Then you didn't understand how Kickstarter works.
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:59 pm » So how do you propose to do this as this forum/the developers have no leading at all
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:59 pm » You get money only if people donate you at least the amount you ask. Otherwise you get no money and people get their donations back.
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:00 pm » ah right, if the goal is not met, refund
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:01 pm » Yes, right
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:01 pm » The fact that we have no leader is a big problem for Kickstarter, correct. This is why I wrote in one post here: I can try only if people promise to cooperate.
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:02 pm » And what will be our project goal?
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:03 pm » So individual developers may chose an assignment for themselves if they promise to actually do it when the money comes ?
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:05 pm » SoUrcerer: I want people's opinion for this, before we decide. There are a few constraints: if the goal is too large, we are not likely to pass it. If the goal is too small, I don't get back even the money I spent on company. So the goal has to be at least 10000 (so after company expenses, we get 4000 to work with), and I think no more than 150000 otherwise it's too hard to reach it
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:05 pm » hidnplayr: Yes, this is what I wanted to offer
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:08 pm » Something like 50,000$ seems a fair goal. We can make it $55,555 for more fun Or even, 65536
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:10 pm » perhaps better star small then overambitious?
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:10 pm » start
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:12 pm » hidnplayr: OK. But less than 10000 we will lose money. Err... I will lose money. So at least 10000. How much you propose?
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:14 pm » I dont know actually, perhaps you can make your money back in two times, just thinking out loud
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:14 pm » The amount of money is offcourse proportional to the actual projects involved
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:15 pm » yogev_ezra: I like 65535
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:15 pm » 'coz we count from 0
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:15 pm » I might have some time to work on a project (just did my final presentation to get my bachelors degree today)
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:16 pm » Btw, how your company is called?
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:16 pm » but a mission like 'finish new network stack' seems very difficult to manage (plan), unless offcourse very strict subgoals are determined first
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:18 pm » SoUrcerer: It doesn't exist yet, I submitted the name as I had in Israel, "Green Gadgets Ltd"
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:18 pm » but if the name is already taken, I will have to select another name
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:19 pm » SoUrcerer: I hope you dont mean by that, that it does not have much bugs, because i know it does
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:20 pm » hidnplayr: We can offer tasks like "VNC client", "RDP client", "Browser"
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:20 pm » I don't plan to offer tasks like "USB support" or "Network stack" because indeed they cannot be well defined in time
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:21 pm » yogev_ezra: Browser too
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:21 pm » SoUrcerer: Browser too what? Cannot be offered or can be?
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:22 pm » yogev_ezra: we have to define goals which should be achieved by "browser"
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:22 pm » 98% CSS2 support, for example
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:23 pm » yogev_ezra: If you submit the project to kickstarter, we could send articles to osnews.com but also perhaps hackaday.com
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:24 pm » SoUrcerer: OK.
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:24 pm » hidnplayr: Sure.
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:24 pm » hidnplayr: yep. And a lot other sites too. Reddit, etc
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:24 pm » Or, "YouTube and Facebook are working like on your Windows PC!"
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:26 pm » Basically we have to offer things that can be completed in 2-6 months, preferably in 4 months or less. If something goes wrong, we can delay it for up to 6 more months (so it will be eventually completed in less than 12 months). Those are not Kickstarter rules, those are my observations from other projects.
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:27 pm » yogev_ezra: I don't think it's very big problem
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:33 pm » And what will be as reward?
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:34 pm » The pride that comes with it
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:34 pm » Forever in the KolibriOS hall of fame
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:34 pm » I mean, for backers
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:34 pm » ha ha
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:35 pm » No, we have to send something matter
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:35 pm » SoUrcerer: I am thinking about few options. SD card or USB stick with installed KolibriOS, so you just boot it and get it running instantly on your PC/laptop. Higher rewards: complete PC (eBox) with KolibriOS installed, so you have a complete PC to play with.
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:36 pm » SoUrcerer: No, hidnplayr is right, reward can be also "put in hall of fame"
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:36 pm » it's permitted. just not many people will buy it. people prefer to have something in hands. but it's not forbidden to have such rewards
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:41 pm » but we can do projects regardless of the rewards. if we have extra money, i can pay you for drivers too
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:42 pm » What kind of projects do you propose then
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:42 pm » Targetting to VNC, RDP and SSH
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:43 pm » hidnplayr: Maybe I confused you. I want to separate between what we offer on Kickstarter and what I will pay for.
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:43 pm » Theoretically we can build X-server to use it with SSH
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:43 pm » So people on kickstarter fun kolibrios in general?
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:43 pm » fund**
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:44 pm » and not specific projects
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:44 pm » hidnplayr: On Kickstarter we can offer that if people donate 50000$, we will do VNC. If people donate 100,000$ we will do VNC+RDP. If they donate 150,000$, we will do VNC+RDP+browser
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:44 pm » Yes, exactly. People will fund KolibriOS in general. And money will be used for projects that can be done.
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:46 pm » I see
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:47 pm » 50000$ for VNC. Amazing
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:47 pm » hidnplayr: So yes, if we collect money successfully, I can pay you for BCM driver programming at full time
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:47 pm » yes, that seems a bit much
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:47 pm » But no, I will not write in Kickstarter that we offer BCM driver for 5000$
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:49 pm » We have to have "Articles about Kolibri" page on our site
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:49 pm » SoUrcerer: It's not 50000$ for VNC. It's VNC if you donate 50,000$. Because you have to calculate rewards and company registration costs
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:50 pm » SoUrcerer: You do realize that 90% of them are in russian do you :p
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:50 pm » Kolibri OS, estimated ohloh cost is $ 7,845,042 fun
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:51 pm » So if we collect 50000$, Kickstarter takes 10% comission (5000), then company handling (5000), then rewards (can be even 30000). So we have 10000 left
SoUrcerer « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:51 pm » hidnplayr: you're not quite right, most of real articles are in English
hidnplayr « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:51 pm » the older ones you mean ?
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:51 pm » Those 10,000 - can do 2 projects, for example VNC + BCM/Marvell drivers. You understand?
Freeman « Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:53 pm » yogev_ezra: your scale is not too precise. With 50000$ for VNC you will need 1,500,000$ for browser.
yogev_ezra « Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:54 pm » Freeman: It was not to scale. It was stretch goals examples.
Last edited by yogev_ezra on Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My poor Photoshop skills managed to produce this after 1 day of work. What do you think of it?
Note: the banner is in JPG and not GIF/PNG because this is how advertising site wants it.
Гмм. Подключился сейчас с мобильного (Samsung Galaxy S 1). Смотрю на твой ответ с расстояния 30см где-то. На твоем баннере могу разобрать только слово "KolibriOS", остальное сливается. На своем баннере могу прочесть "KolibriOS - the fastest open-source graphical Operating System" и кусок слова Kickstarter ("starter"). Так что многое зависит от того, кто и как смотрит.
P.S. Я фотошопом начал пользоваться в 1993 году, так что комплимент не по адресу Наоборот, если это все, чему я научился за 19 дет, тл мои дела очень плохи!
Asmxygen
Websvn
Builds
Bugs
FTP
Wiki
Telegram
Discord
Reddit
The only restrictions are that banner has to be static (no moving images) and banner size has to be 930x80px. You can see examples of banners that other projects use here: 
Мои первые были куда хуже)))